Cleve Jones (second from right) with Chicago gay-rights activists (from left) Victor Salvo, Lori Cannon and Art Johnston. Photo at the Milk screening by Richard Knight, Jr.
San Franciscan Cleve Jones has been on the forefront of gay activism for 30 years and is probably best known as the founder of the NAMES Project AIDS Memorial Quilt. His introduction to queer politics began with his association with Harvey Milk, San Francisco’s first openly gay elected official who was assassinated along with Mayor George Moscone in 1978. Thirty years after that horrific tragedy, Milk’s life is finally being brought to the screen. Jones, as one of Milk’s closest friends, has been working on Milk, which stars Sean Penn, James Franco, Josh Brolin and Emile Hirsch—who portrays Jones—since the project’s inception and he acted is a historical consultant on the film. At 54, the soft-spoken Jones is thrilled to finally have the project reach an audience—and said project will be shown in Chicago Wed., Nov. 26.
Windy City Times: The first thing I want to ask about is how you became involved. Last night at the screening, you told the audience this was an 18-year process.
Cleve Jones: Yes, I met [director [Gus Van Sant 18 years ago during a previous attempt to tell this story that was based on Randy Shilts’ book, The Mayor of Castro Street, and Gus came to San Francisco and looked me up, moved into my apartment and it all fell apart but our friendship did not. We stayed in touched through all these years and basically, I’ve been badgering the guys for 18 years to make this movie (laughs).
WCT: Because he’s a good filmmaker and a queer one, right?
CJ: I would say his being gay was the least part of it. Gus is able to turn his camera on all sorts of marginalized people and he’s able to tell dark and complicated stories without apology, without over dramatizing because he’s humble. Then, of course he’s queer but I really think that is not the most significant part of why he was perfect. So, we knew each other, we stayed in touch and then three years ago I met Lance Black. I was really touched that he knew Harvey’s story—I think he was 29 when I met him. He said that he’d always wanted to write this screenplay. He’s a very genuine guy and very smart. I trusted him immediately. I kept saying, ‘If you ever write this thing I have a director in mind’ and finally at the end of February, 2007 he showed me what he’d written and even though it was a rough draft—I’ve read many versions of Harvey’s story—this was the best.
WCT: Somebody finally got it …
CJ: Somebody got it just right. I remember being so pleased to feel like I could hear Harvey’s voice in it. On March 1, 2007 I took Lance to meet Gus and to me, that’s when the project began and 18 months later it was finished. The perfect script, the perfect director, the perfect cast, and it’s been like magic.
WCT: Was it rather eerie to see Emile Hirsch who plays you in the film come out of the makeup trailer as your younger self?
CJ: Oh, it was surreal. I got goose bumps. I couldn’t believe it. I kept saying, ‘Well, he doesn’t really look like me’ but then he came out of wardrobe with the hair and the glasses and the attitude and I was like, ‘Oh my God’ (laughs). My family got such a kick out of it. They were just dying, he was so real.
WCT: You’ve had the rare experience of getting into a time machine and going back 30 years—it must have been tremendously moving and bittersweet.
CJ: Cried a lot, I cried a lot. The first scene we shot was Dan White declaring his candidacy and Lance picked me up at about five o’clock in the morning and it was pouring rain and we’re driving out to the edge of San Francisco and we get there and it’s just pissing rain and at 8:28—a couple of minutes before we were supposed to start shooting—Lance and I went up the hill to where the canteen was set up to get some coffee and at that moment it stopped raining, the clouds parted and a fucking rainbow appeared over the set. [Chuckles] We looked at each other and just lost it. For the first couple of weeks I think I cried everyday. I was reminded of people who were gone and things like that. So, yes, there was a lot of crying but it was also just so exciting and everybody in San Francisco was so behind us.
WCT: The sad memories must be balanced somewhat knowing that after so long a large audience is finally going to see Harvey’s story.
CJ: Yes. I mean it’s bittersweet, but it’s mostly sweet. I’ve waited a long time for this. I’ve had a very full life and I’ve done a lot but I tell you, this has been the best year of my whole life. It’s just been so full of laughter and love and the team that worked on this—we all got along so well.
WCT: Did Sean Penn talk with you about Harvey? Do you have any clue about how he built that character? Is he Harvey?
CJ: He’s Harvey. He becomes Harvey—it’s an amazing transformation and that’s not just my opinion, it is the opinion of all of us who knew Harvey. Sean just became Harvey. The first thing I did was meet with Sean. We had dinner a couple of times and then I put together some dinners with other people that knew Harvey so that Sean could hear their stories. He was shown the archival footage and then at one point, still a few weeks before we started shooting, I asked, ‘Do you have an idea how you’re going to approach this?’ and he said, ‘Basically, I’m just going to try to show him as a kind man’ and something about that relieved me a lot. But it goes way beyond mimicking tone of voice or mannerisms. He really communicates the spirit of Harvey in an amazing way.
WCT: Excuse me if I play Devil’s Advocate for a moment but why should straight America care about a dead faggot killed 30 years ago?
CJ: I think it’s much more than that—it’s a much broader story. It’s the story of an ordinary man who changed the world and I think it’s an incredible source of inspiration. Every kind of audience we’re showing it to—young old, gay and straight—are deeply moved by it. It is a universal story about justice and equality and much more interestingly, it’s the story of an ordinary guy whose personal life was in disarray, who died penniless, who as he says in the film didn’t do anything of any consequence for the first 40 years of his life and then changed the world. As frustrating as it’s been for me to wait 30 years to see it happen I feel now that worked in our favor because now I think America’s ready to hear this story—all of America.