When it comes to the art of butchery, Kari Underly is a cut above almost everyone else—pun intended
Underly—who has been a judge on the popular TV show Chopped (on an episode featuring four women butchers) and has served as judge for America’s Pig Farmer of the Year—has been involved in the field for more than 20 years. These days, she has put her extensive knowledge of butchery to good use as an educator—not only with demonstrations across the country but with her own online school, Range Meat Academy Online—a certificate program for meat clerks and meat cutters. In addition, Underly is an author, having written the James Beard-nominated book The Art of Beef Cutting: A Meat Professional’s Guide to Butchering and Merchandising.
NOTE: This conversation was edited for clarity and length.
Windy City Times: It’s interesting that you come from a family of meat cutters. Is this something you automatically gravitated toward, or did you try other things and realize that meat-cutting was your true calling?
Kari Underly: I do come from a family of butchers. It’s not what I set out to do [laughs], but I put my way through college cutting meat in South Bend [Indiana]. I got out of it, which brought me to Chicago and—lo and behold—it’s kind of trendy now and I just rolled with it.
I came to Chicago to work with the National Cattlemen’s Beef Association [as a director of meat management]. I was there a short time because they were relocating to Denver and, around that time [the early 2000s], the flatiron steak was being launched—and that’s what pulled me back into it. I would do a lot of trainings and demonstrations on how to fabricate that cut.
WCT: Unfortunately, while doing research on you, I just assumed you’ve had to deal with sexism within the industry. Was it constant and, if so, what got you through it?
Underly: I wouldn’t say it was constant, but it was there—from people not wanting to train me because I’m a woman to customers who wanted “a real butcher.” With customers, I would say, “If you want something, it’s not gonna cut itself.”
And then there were some harder moments, with isolation. My boss didn’t like the way I looked at him because I can be a little animated with my eyes, and I rolled my eyes at him. [Laughs] The cooler was kind of a sound room back then; I was in there—and, all of a sudden, a knife [whizzed] by me and stuck into some boxes right behind me. I grabbed the knife and threw it at his feet; I said, “You’re lucky you missed.”
WCT: Wow. Did your boss face any repercussions for doing that?
Underly: No. I didn’t say anything. I was young, and I wanted to keep the peace and my job. But I also had a lot of people who taught me. My dad wasn’t too excited about me working [in the field]. We actually worked at the same company—and he didn’t like that at all.
WCT: Why?
Underly: I think he wanted me to do something different. I think he had an expectation that I would do more, but I did. I think it was also ego, because I made it to a higher position than he did.
WCT: I wonder if he would’ve felt the same way if you had been male.
Underly: I think we would’ve embraced it. There was always that chip on his shoulder.
He’s not with us any longer; he passed during COVID. Yeah, there wasn’t a lot of support there; I think he just wanted me to do something different. It wasn’t until I was working on helping to fabricate muscles differently that my dad started looking at me differently. He finally understood what I was doing, on a more professional level.
WCT: I also want to talk about Range Meat Academy. It would make perfect sense for it to be in Chicago.
Underly: Yeah. I tried really hard to get a physical brick-and-mortar school in Chicago and I just couldn’t make it happen. Our program is approved by the Illinois Board of Higher Education and we have three online curricula. We distribute our coursework online. We have over 10 hours of video; we produced it and it was a very big undertaking.
We [My wife and I] left Chicago during COVID and bought a farm in Indiana; we had a condo near Washington and Peoria, but I have post-construction disorder because every building has been flipped [in Fulton Market]. But before that, I had my office in the Fulton Market area of Chicago—back when it was Fulton Market, not what it is today. But, yes, Chicago is the perfect spot, given its history. I went through every culinary school in Chicago; they wanted the program in some form of fashion, but it never happened. And with culinary schools, enrollments are down. The Food Network stars are kind of [taking over].
WCT: Generally speaking, what’s the biggest mistake people make when cutting meat?
Underly: Cutting with the grain. From a cooked or raw perspective, you want to cut across the grain. It improves tenderness, from the consumer side; from the professional side, people tend to saw their meat instead of slice it. You don’t want jagged edges.
WCT: So have you received a cut of meat at a restaurant and you go, “I need to tell them a few things?”
Underly: All the time. Steakhouses, a lot of times, have meats that are already in Cryovac bags and cook them; some do hand-cut their steaks. What I see a lot is that menus will say something is one cut but it turns out to be a different one. People may not recognize what the cuts are supposed to look like.
I remember that I would get the biggest kick when my then-boss and I would do cutting demonstrations with samplings of the steaks. It always, always, always happened that people would look at me to set up the cooking demo and look at him to do the butchering—and it was the opposite. That was always fun. [Laughs]
WCT: Now conversely, what are one or two steakhouses that impressed you?
Underly: RPM and Swift & Sons do pretty decent jobs. Kinzie Chophouse is also pretty good. Those are some of the ones I like. But when I lived there, people would ask which steakhouse I’d go to—and I would say, “My house.” [Laughs] I also don’t want to pay the prices, especially when I know what I’m getting.
WCT: I’m sure you’ve had to deal with people who say, “Meat is murder.” What is your response to that?
Underly: Food is a very passionate topic. That’s a hard one.
I’ve dealt with picketers but no one has gotten in my face, to be honest. It’s more about the environment that I’m usually challenged about, but I believe in a more grass-fed, sustainable agricultural model instead of the large packing houses, which I’ve been to. Cows can save the planet, though. When they eat the grass, they put nutrients back into the soil. And those chewed-up grasses make for a stronger root system and end up releasing a lot of carbon. But I also tell people that we don’t have to eat a 16- or 24-ounce steak, either; one portion is four ounces—which I know is hard for some people to do!
WCT: I have to talk about Chopped. What’s something about filming that show that might surprise people?
Underly: It’s happening in real time; once that clock goes, it’s real. One of the competitors cut herself, but the clock kept going; there’s no time out. The other judges [Mark Murphy and Alex Guarnaschelli] were nice. They brought me in as the meat-cutting expert; [Alex] has an amazing palate but she talked about butchery, although I wanted to tell her to stay in her lane—but I didn’t dare. Ted Allen didn’t initially know that I was James Beard-nominated; at one point, I’m asking myself, “Did no one read my bio?” Once he got into that though, he got really excited.
And it’s a really long day. You’re in hair and makeup at 5 a.m. and you don’t wrap up until about 7:30 p.m.
WCT: And the contestants have no time to come up with recipes during the competitions?
Underly: Right. I think they might’ve had time during the beginning to walk through the pantry. But they’re given very specific ingredients; you’re given ambrosia salad and, boom, you have to go.
WCT: Asking you something I’ve asked people over the year, what is it like for you to be part of the queer community in today’s America?
Underly: It’s freeing, for me. There was always that burden of not using pronouns—and in agriculture, it was scary for me to be who I was. Ever since marriage equality was approved, it just changed my whole perspective. I felt “equal to” instead of “less than” everybody. It’s just accepting the [possibility] that a certain person could get into office and take this all away with the Supreme Court.
My wife was more open about it. I’d get in a cab and if there was somebody I didn’t think would be very approving, I’d say, “Shhh!” And I didn’t want any funny business.
Also, we were members of the Soho Club. And I’ll never forget that me and my wife were sitting there and these beautiful people walked up. There’s the traditional drag queen who’s done up to be a big personality; unfortunately, that was my limited view of the community. But these diverse people wore beautiful makeup but might’ve been dressed a little more manly. It was just this beautiful coming together of people just being themselves—and I was just so excited to see that. Those people were gorgeous and confident! And that led me to feeling more free.
To find out more about Range Meat Academy Online, visit this link.