Chef Amanda Barnes makes an impression wherever she goes.
This writer initially met Barnes several years ago at the Midtown Athletic Club’s Chromium, where there were dishes such as salmon-skin chicharrones coupled with hot honey; wagyu-and-beef heart meatballs; and Job’s tears (tomato, cauliflower, roasted mushrooms, baby mustard greens and almonds).
These days, Barnes—who grew up in Texas and was a pastry chef in St. Louis before bringing her talents to several well-respected Chicago spots—is now the executive chef of TAO Chicago (formerly the nightclub Excalibur), which is currently known for its cuisine as well as the famous personalities who visit (including Megan Thee Stallion, who recently held her “Hottieween” party there).
Note: This conversation was edited for clarity and length.
Windy City Times: You’ve been in several restaurants, such as Chromium and Moto. Is there a restaurant in your past that has influenced you more than any other?
Chef Amanda Barnes: I feel like it was one in St. Louis, where I was 20 years ago; it was An American Place and I worked with Larry Forgione, who has all those restaurants in New York. I feel like that was a really seminal moment for me, because I had been in independent, hipster places before that—and this was a restaurant restaurant, like, they were super-particular about their tools and knives. That left an indelible mark on me throughout my career about what a chef is and what the expectations should be.
WCT: And you moved to Chicago shortly after that?
Barnes: I then went to work for James Beard Award winner Gerard Craft; I was his sous chef for a while. Then I became interested in what was being called “post-modernist cuisine,” and the center of that [in the U.S.] was Chicago. I really wanted to work for [Moto chef] Homaro [Cantu], so I’m glad I got to work there.
WCT: I always wanted to go there, but I missed that boat. When I first heard about the concept of molecular gastronomy, of course I had never heard of anything like that—but it sounded so interesting.
Barnes: And it’s funny to me because there are a lot of things that three-star restaurants are doing now that he did years ago—and he did them in more of a DIY way because they didn’t exist, like a reverse griddle. I remember that we would take these stainless-steel plates, soak them in liquid nitrogen and pull them out; we had cooked pancakes that we would then turn into a batter, and we would freeze them on these plates as a dessert.
WCT: And long before they were on Chopped.
Barnes: Those shows ruined the industry, but that’s another discussion and a different article.
WCT: And after Moto, you went to…
Barnes: I went to One Off [Hospitality] and The Publican, which was a unique experience. I remember having a sense of trepidation because the housing crisis had just happened, so the market had just fallen out. So the market had just crashed, and you’re going to open this restaurant in the middle of a full-on recession? And One Off, at the time, had just Blackbird and avec, and this was such a different concept—and it could’ve gone pear-shaped. But it was interesting to see how One Off does an opening; seeing how this award-winning company structured it was cool.
WCT: You’ve been to several places where you get established and then you leave—and you’re certainly not the first chef, or person, to do that. In your case, is there a theme or connection with that?
Barnes: Sometimes there is and sometimes there isn’t. There were some places I left because they were terrible places to work, so why work at a place where you’re not happy? But I’ve been here [at TAO] for two years. For me, if the relationship with the restaurant gets to a point where I’m not growing or that the team isn’t growing—that it all feels stagnant—then I feel we should part ways. Leaving The Publican was financially motivated because there was the housing crash and I wasn’t making enough money, so I needed to make the leap to a position that was more financially positive. The rent is due the first of every month—not just this month.
WCT: You said you’ve been at TAO for two years. What was the cuisine like before and how did you make your imprint on it?
Barnes: TAO is a brand; there are standards and staples to a menu like that, and those need to be maintained. When I got here, they were not maintaining those recipes and standards so my job was to pull the train back on the track, so to speak, and make sure those standards were being met—which is a lot harder than it sounds when you have an entrenched group of people doing things they want to, as opposed to what they’re supposed to be. Now we’re at the tail end of that rebuilding phase—and I feel like I’m talking about the Cubs and Bulls—and getting to a point where I feel really proud of the food we produce. There is always room for improvement, but I try to push myself and my team constantly. Now is the fun part, when I can do specials and things like that.
WCT: Like brunch?
Barnes: Thank the Lord we don’t do brunch! [Laughs] From a cook’s perspective, brunch was invented by the devil. Brunch is its own beast and everybody wants their eggs done in very specific ways in 30 seconds—and they want them to cost two dollars.
WCT: Are there chefs who specialize in brunches?
Barnes: Yes, there are. There are egg cooks; they get a lot of money per hour and all they do are eggs. A lot of hotels have egg specialists. If somebody has “egg station” at one of these hotels on their resume, I’m hiring that person immediately.
WCT: So what’s your idea of “fun” regarding TAO’s cuisine?
Barnes: For 30 minutes every day, I make myself learn something I don’t know about cooking. The fun part is that I’ll find something and go down a rabbit hole and say, “This is amazing. I’ve never made this. I never knew this product or technique existed.” And that becomes a catalyst for something I’ll try as a special.
WCT: You’ve talked about your past. How tough was it for a woman to become an executive chef? I imagine it wasn’t easy.
Barnes: In almost 20 years in the industry, I’ve only worked for one female chef and I have only worked with two female chefs—even now. TAO is very, very, very progressive; it’s a great company to work for and they don’t care where you’re from—all they want to know is if you can do the job. The industry is what I call the last meritocracy. Go to any kitchen and you’ll see anyone from convicted felons to debutantes. I love that about our industry but, in the beginning, I always got put on pastry—and I’m a much better grill and sauté cook than I am a pastry cook. Now, I’m not automatically put in pastry.
WCT: What’s one culinary trend you’d love to see go away?
Barnes: There are so many. I don’t know if it’s a culinary trend as much as it’s a cultural one, but the competitions and hot lists need to go away. Top Chef, Chopped and Food Network, I think, have done irreparable damage to the industry because people are now, like, “I have a degree and I won Chopped, so I should have my own restaurant.” That’s not how it works, and that level of expectation is not the reality of working here. And people will say, “I’m a chef now and I want $27 an hour,” and I say, “Here’s $18 and you’re going to work prep for a year”—and their minds are blown.
I’m running a business; I think some people forget that. Yes, I love to cook but as you get better with cooking, the less cooking you do and the more business you do. I consider myself a vice president of a business here.
WCT: For you, what is it like to be part of the LGBTQ+ community in today’s America?
Barnes: It’s interesting because I came out at a very, very young age; [then-President Ronald] Reagan was in office. It’s so much easier now to be queer now than it was back then. I don’t even lead with it anymore; I just live. In many ways, it’s a non-issue in Chicago and in my industry. If being queer was an issue, you wouldn’t have these amazing servers, cooks and other professionals. I tell my cooks, “I don’t care what you do in your private life. The only time that becomes an issue is if it impacts your work.”
More information about TAO Chicago is here.